Pashley Princess Sovereign
Batavus Old Dutch
I have a dilemma. I want to upgrade to a super high quality European cruiser, but I have no idea if I should go Pashley or Batavus (my two final choices). Both the Pashley Princess Sovereign and the Batavus Old Dutch come in small frame sizes for my diminutive self. They differ in other respects like gears, brakes, and other technical aspects that I can't pretend to be an expert on.
So I'm asking all you excellent bike persons who read this blog to help me out and give me some advice. Since they're small frame sizes I'll have to special order one in and I don't think it's fair to ask my shoppe to bring in both. But it's hard for me to make a decision without riding either of them first.
I also have people telling me to stick with my Amsterdam Electra (sport 3, buttercream) because it's light and has an excellent frame. Maybe I just think the grass is greener on the other side? I just imagine a heavier bike not necessarily being hard to ride... and having beautiful momentum and a sturdy, timeless, solid quality. But I don't own one, so it's really hard to say!
Help.
32 comments:
Take it for what it's worth, knowing that it comes from someone who rides a 30 year old bike:
I wouldn't ever lay down that kind of money for a bike I'd never ridden, no matter how lovely it is. If I were you I'd try really hard to ride one or both first, and keep riding your Amsterdam Electra in the meantime.
I know that's the no-fun practical approach! Sorry!
not sure if you read this blog: hankandme.blogspot.com. she rides a dutch-made bike.
i'm wondering what frame size your current bike is as i am also petite. i'm 5'3" and having a hard time dismounting and remounting on my hand me down bike, a cheap hybrid bike (huffy).
I don't have any suggestions between these two, but what I definitely do NOT recommend is getting a Flying Pigeon, which is the old school Maoist knock-off of these bikes. We ordered one for Andrea a few weeks ago off of ebay as a bit of a whim (they are pretty cheap) and it is basically unrideable. It sure looks pretty, though. They seem to be popular with hipsters in New York these days.
It's also very heavy (the whole thing is made of steel), and the heaviness makes it a bit of a pain in the ass to lug around. Not sure if being heavy makes the ride any better. The cheap way to find out would just be to get really fat and see how your Electra rides :)
Geoff,
I don't think I want to get really fat! Then I might have to find a special one for being really fat in addition to being short:) Is the Mao bike made from old kitchen pots?
R,
Hand me downs are painful, always hopping on and off and risking junk accidents on top tubes? Not fun! The Electra actually fits great (I would highly recommend you find a dealer and give it a try) but the angles of the bike have as much to do with a good fit/posture as size does. So you'll be surprised how many ready made things would likely work for you! I'm 5'0.
S*
Char,
I know! The lure of luxury is definitely an important factor to keep in mind, but if it's a great quality bike, I'm not afraid of investing. I've had a chance to ride the Batavus (in the 'normal' size) but not the Pashley. I've seen the Pashley up close and personal, though, and only top notch distributors are bringing them in. I think there are some regular sized ones coming into my bike shoppe this week though, so I'll go in and give it a whirl.
S*
I would keep the Electra. It is light(ish) and they look great. My wife hates using her heavy European cruiser (though it looks very nice), but loves her significantly lighter hybrid cruiser. It's really a matter of use for her, the extra weight just adds work to what should be nearly effortless.
Personally, I love the Pashley - and I'm planning to buy one someday. But I'm probably not the best person to give advice as I am 5'-9" barefoot and have no memory of being 'petite'.
Here's my thoughts: First, these are both really expensive bikes - at least for me and it sounds as if it is for you. Spend some time making this decision. You already have a great bike so there is no rush .... other than the 'i want it now' syndrom. Take your time, and really explore your options - are these the only bikes you want to consider? There are lots of great classic bikes out there. I always enjoy the time spent thinking about a purchase. I can spend years planning a big purchase, dreaming of it, researching options - drives my friends nuts but when I finally get it the purchase is so much more exciting and I really appreciate it. Call some the the stores around the country that carry these bikes and talk to the people that sell them - get their thoughts - there are a handfull of stores at least - you should be able to get as many opinions. Most people who sell bikes, love bikes and will happily talk assuming the store isn't packed with people. Also - hunt airfare deals - the last minute deals are still out there and good. Fly out to stores to try out these bikes and more. Really nothing is better than trying out a bike and you get a mini vacation somewhere too!!
Just my thoughts -hope they help.
Alexandra,
Thanks for the tips! I'm not so concerned with the money portion, it's far cheaper than keeping and driving a car. And I would really prefer to get a bike from my favourite bike shoppe here in Edmonton, then I can really count on the tech support in the years to come. I've already done tons of research and yup, Pashley and Batavus are my frontrunners right now:)
Cheers!
S*
Samuel,
Yeah, the weight is a potential variable. I'll likely keep my Electra in addition to any new bike (if I get down to purchasing one). Won't be letting go of anything yet. Currently I have the luxury of space for lots of bikes:) But they would be redundant... what kind of oma bike does your wife have?
S*
Based on your fotos ... I'd go with the Pashley ...
-Bama Bound
Sarah,
I assumed you would buy it locally!!! And as another carless person, I agree it is small change in comparison to the cost of a car. Personally, I need to get on the bike - and I have found bike shops around the country ready and willing to help me try out bikes I can find locally with full understanding that I will buy them at home - after all, I don't need a lot of attention, I just want to try out the bike.
Good luck with your decision!!
- Alex in DC
Hi Sarah,
Which bicycle are you leaning toward? I would go for the Pashley if it's going to be stored indoors at night, both for care of the bike and avoiding bicycle theft in this city. I intend to purchase one very shortly. For me, the decision was between a scooter or a bicycle. With the bicycle I'm looking forward to 1)not having to fill up a vehicle 2) not struggling to find parking 3)not paying for parking.
-Best wishes,
Char
Hola - http://www.rarifiedonline.com/ - just outside of Calgary carries Pashley and Batavus. Really nice folks and close enough you could go see the bikes.
I'd call and talk to Patrick about what they have in stock and pricing.
I know the first weekend they got these bikes in 4 Pashleys flew out the doors.
I had a look at the Princess Sovereign in their shop today.....looks cool, but I'm not really up on Dutch bikes to give you an opinion on the technical merits of them.
good luck with your search,
Vik
Okay, I don't mean to take over this posting - but I am struggling with deciding what bike to buy next so I have been thing about this alot. I thought I'd take some time to break down the details that I am looking at - maybe they will help you.
These are things I really like and don't like about both bikes - and they have alot of the same or similar parts so this list is really about some details. They are both steel frames and huge heavy monsters - about 45 lbs each - which is, I think, what you are looking for. I'm sticking to things I know something about too - which isn't much. For example, I don't know much about the gearing except they are both internal hub and as I understand it the Sturmey Archer 5 speed is really a three speed with two mid gears - so that is a wash.
The Pashley:
Schwalbe marathon tires - these I love -- with an internal hub you want to avoid flats!!
Hub brakes - this is different than you are used to with your electra which may be good or bad, your call (for me it's a wash)
Brooks Saddle - well, it's a lovely saddle - probably the best saddle out there (unless, perhaps, if Hermes makes one)
Dynamo headlamp - love my dynamo light and won't go back to batteries
A wicker basket comes with the bike - and with the lovely frame that supports it from below which is the best way to go IMHO(perfect for a somewhat heavy bag of library books, a small grocery bag or your dog)
Are gold lined mudguard good or a scam? - no idea
love the ding dong bell - but an inexpensive add on your own if you prefer the sound
Yes, only two colors but they are classic - I might need one of each ;)
The Batavus:
Coaster brake is intuitive for most of us (certainly for me)and that is an attractive feature. You are spoiled with the Electra which is supposed to have a really great set of coaster breaks - unless you know the brakes on the Old dutch are as sensitive as your Electra, you should test these first - guaranteed to be something to drive you nuts if they are not as nice!!
Battery Powered lights are not my favorite BUT the frame integral design is amazing and what every bike maker should include starting yesterday.
I am not certain how I feel about varnished canvas for the chaincase and skirtguard (certainly not at all the love I feel for a Barbour waxed jacket) What is the advantage to canvas? I need more info on this in terms of lifespan in the more severe US climate (may not apply to you)
Six colors available - but I am not a fan of matte colors (to say the least) on a bike - so this is not a pro. There is only one color I would consider - but you can't go wrong with a black bike
Don't know if this helps - but these are issues I am juggling.
Get the Pashley!
If you have not already read it, you might be interested in getting a copy of VeloVision issue 18/June 2005. It has a review of town bikes including the Pashley Princess. Unfortunately, the Batavus Old Dutch is not included in the review. The review includes Townsends Light Blue, Sparta Athena, Pashley Princess Severeign, Fahrrad-Manufaktur S200, and Azor Boundless. The whole article covers 6 pages with pictures so each bikes' individual review text is less than a page.
According to Velovision's web site, the magazine is available in Canada from
Cambie Cycles (Vancouver) www.cambiecycles.com
Urbane Cyclist (Toronto) www.ucycle.com
Fairfield Bicycle Shop (Victoria, B.C.) www.fairfieldbicycle.com
Bikeface (Durham, ON): www.bikeface.com
Urbane Cyclist's site says it carries back issue but does not have online purchase.
From the USA, Calhoun Cycle's web site, www.calhouncycle.com, has online purchase of VeloVision issue 18.
Regards,
Miss Sarah, you _did_ ask, so ol alf in Davenport, Iowa will unashamedly offer the advice to instead buy yourself an old 3-speed. Not a 3-spd with any one of the versions of the Shimano rear hub but rather almost any one of the many kinds of bikes that came with the Sturmey Archer rear hub.
They are ubiquitous to this day because they last forever and almost every bike shop has an old guy who knows how to see to it that they actually do last forever.
They come on old English bikes of many brand names but mostly, from the early-sixties into the eighties anyway, Raleigh-built bikes.
Equally bomb-proof altho slightly heavier are the Schwinn BREEZEs and COLLEGIATEs with the S/A 3-spd hubs.
BTW, I do not recommend buying any of the above that come with the 3-spd coaster hub, stay with the straight 3-spd and front and rear hand caliper brakes.
With the installation of a readily available modern Shimano 22-tooth cog the gearing of these old 3-spds becomes very comfortable and I believe they make ideal city bikes.
Best of all, they are inexpensive. The only thing they do not offer is trendy snob appeal.
alf
Char - Leaning towards Pashley. I was going to get a scooter too! Luckily, some cycling friends did a lot of research to find me stylish cycling alternatives, something that wasn't very easy to come by in Edmonton. What really sold me was the exercise. Getting fit and going places, 2 birds with one stone!
Vik,
Thanks for the line on the Calgary shop, I'll probably be heading down there some time this summer, anyway, so that would be a worthwhile stop indeed! Will keep you updated on the final decision:)
Alf - I love your unashamed advice, it's information that I need and you have it! Thanks for caring enough to write:)
Chris - Thanks for the links, will go and read and learn!
Alexandra - Like your comparisons, I think you and I are definitely on the same wavelength about many things. Most of all the deliciousness of brooks saddles:) My road bike currently has one and it's fantastic.
have you ever considered the Victoria Classic by Velorbis http://www.velorbis.com/velorbis-classic-bicycles/classic-bicycles/victoria-classic.
I am not sure if it is available in Canada yet though.
The Velorbis bicycles will be featured in 'The Nature of things' by David Suzuki. He went to Copenhagen and did a feature on the Velorbis bicycles.
You've really got to test drive them both. They're both marvellous but there will be a slight difference in feel. I've tried the Batavus. You'll find it quite different to the Elektra. You sit very upright which gives you great visibility when driving in town, plus drivers can see you easier. The Pashley is a beautifully crafted bike although I believe more expensive. I came very close to buying a Batavus but was lured away by the Danish Biomega, a slightly more contemporary bike.
D'Arcy
Sarah....I too was having this exact stress this week...Electra Vs. Batavus...I have test driven both this week and have to say I love the Batavus. I like the solid strength of the frame. I feel safer on the heavier frame. I don't intend on riding really long distances which is what this bike is meant for so I feel that the weight will not be a big issue...
Also, you should know that just last week on July 22 there was a recall on 9,500 Electra Amsterdam bikes! It is a problem I think with the Chain guard and the chain interfering...here is a link to the recall
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08337.html
Go with the Batavus, 100 years of success in holland has to mean something! The Amsterdam has only been out for a few years and as you can see already has problems.
I am off to order my Batavus in Black right after work today. Hope you order yours too.
ride safe,
Lisa
Hi all - I'm new to this site but think it's great! Just read all the emails above and felt I had to throw in my opinion (for what it's worth!) I live and work in London and cycle everywhere on my gorgeous, beautiful, much admired Pashley Princess Sovereign - I cannot recommend it highly enough! True quality - a comfortable, smooth ride with ample carrying capacity, it's drop-dead gorgeous and has never had anything wrong with it since I bought it 3 years ago. Yes they're expensive, but I managed to get mine through my workplace 'Cycle to Work' scheme - don't know if you have these where you are, but definitely worth investigating! I paid lower than the retail price in manageable monthly installments. One piece of advice - if you do choose a Pashley, get yourself the toughest lock you can! I shelled out £100 for a lock ($200 USD), but considering I live in the capital of crime, it was a very, very worthwhile investment!
Best wishes!
Jen and her Pashley....
I can't speak to the Pashley or Batavus particularly, and you may have already gotten a new bike, since this was posted two months ago, but I have an Electra Amsterdam Classic 3 with a steel frame, and it gives a pretty smooth ride. I've also heard in general that steel frame bikes feel more solid and a bit smoother than aluminum or other alloy. They do have the disadvantage of rust, but if you don't leave it outside all the time, it should be fine. I think if I had the money to blow, I'd be really tempted to get a Pashley or Batavus or an Azor or Velorbis.
Also, with regard to weight and gears, the Amsterdam Classic 3 weighs in the neighborhood of 40lbs and is a 3 speed, and I have no problems riding it around town in 5 mile or smaller trips. Of course it depends how hilly the area is, but in general, I don't have any problems - so yeah, I think a lot of gears and a really light bike aren't necessarily requisite for normal utility cycling.
Hey m o!
I'm loving the steel frame, mostly because it absorbs a lot of the impact from the road and I don't feel every tiny blip in the pavement. There are a lot of blips here. And the weight is not a factor at all! Maybe it's because I ride a lot and my body is used to it, but even if that wasn't the case, the workout is definitely health promoting:)
S*
Batavus, hands down. PS it will be way better than your Electra.
I just got a Batavus (I got a crazy deal on it - easy decision!). Here it is to share!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3547/3316914813_6bab2247fb.jpg?v=0
Yay! And, I feel that if I bought and am riding in February, the rest of my year should be easy, especially here in Portland. I am working on manning up in the leg department for our hills with my 3 speeds...
Good luck with your biggest project of the year!
May be this is a bit late but ask around some of the cycle shops that stock these. I know a lot stock Pashley but not Batavus. I left my credit card and filled in a form to take the Pashley Roadster (gents) round a the town. It answered some of the questions I had about this kind of bike.
I have not tried a Batavus but did decide on the Pashley there and then. This was Dec 08 and have now clocked up nearly 3000 miles.
Some months later, my better half tried the Pashley Princess. She is 5' and copes ok but did find it took a bit of getting used to with a full basket but after a few trips really loves it.
This is an old post but maybe someone's still listening.
The Pashley has a dynamo hub for the front light, but is the rear light also wired to it? A Pashley I saw recently in a shop had a battery powered light. This to me would be a real pain, having a generator but still having to worry about batteries.
I'm guessing that the design thought behind this would be as follows: for safety, rear light should always work uniformly well, even if you are stationary. It's about being seen, not illumination.
OTOH for the front light, it's not so important to be lit when stationary but it is is valuable that the light becomes stronger as the speed increases and that the light is powerful enough to provide illumination.
My wife tried out the Pashley lights yesterday evening and we were well pleased!
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